"Database options: Relations" missing in my copy

I last used Panorama in the 90s for tracking hobby details. I’m now trying to set up a full databse to help manage my business (artwork), and I’m having trouble finding the tools. According to the tutorial I found online before downloading and installing Panorama X, relations can be created between multiple databases e.g. a “Locations” database (for galleries, shows, and events) can be linked to databases of “Artwork” or “Collectors” or even “Current Status of Artwork”. This apparently happens in the Database options menu item: http://www.provue.com/panoramax/help/linking_with_another_database.html. However, the copy I just bought of Panorama apparently has neither “Auxuillary” nor “Relations” settings in this menu Item. Did I download the wrong copy of Panorama?

I think you downloaded the currently available version of Panorama; the 10.2 version has those options (apparently) but is not available yet to download.

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Oh! I see. Any idea when that is supposed to come out? I have read a bit about the lookup( functions and all that jazz, but I don’t want to design an entire database on that now when I could just do what I want in the new system whenver it is available. Although I guess that means I just blew a month of credit because the software isn’t available :confused: I have been running the whole thing on Google Sheets with custom scripts to look up and check keys for the various records and compile summary and status data. Given that the numerical keys for Customer ID, Artwork ID, Location ID and various other details are all in place in my existing data that I’m trying to bring over to Panorama, it seems a waste to reinvent the wheel

@admin is it possible to get a copy of 10.2? I thought that since all the references on the website discussed this feature that I would be able to set up relationships with the current software.

Benjamin, you can do any of the lookups now with the existing PanX statements in version 10.1, such as lookup( and related functions. The next version of PanX will have some new tools that I have heard will make this easier, but you can do everything now. Lookups have been a frequent subject of questions on this forum, so you may find answers to any questions with a search. These functions have a slightly more complicated syntax than most, so you may need to check the Help page when you use it to get it exactly right. That’ what I do after years of using PanX.

Hi CooperT, Thanks for the tip. I did look into those formulae, and they don’t seem much harder than writing spreadsheet lookup and array code, which I have done. I posted my question here out of surprise that there is extensive documentation and sales language aimed at the dynamic and powerful relationship mapping capacity in Panorama X, yet no mention anywhere that this feature was actually not available in the software you buy. I thought I had maybe gotten an old version and was missing the correct download link or something. If it really turns out that I can’t model table relationships in Panorama, I may just invest my energy in making a Ninox version of my stuff, since I don’t have to learn an entirely new way of scripting table and field relationships. I’m still holding out hope that maybe there is a version of Panorama that I can get that can allow me to use all the index keys I’ve set up in my current system

The built-in Panorama documentation available in the Help menu is locked to the version of the software you have. I believe this is the version of the documentation that most people use, especially since it is searchable (and very convenient when you are using the software).

Unlike the built-in documentation, the online web documentation is updated instantly as we work on the software. Mostly this allows us to apply corrections, but it does also show new features as we are working on them. In the past this hasn’t seemed to be a problem, but we may need to revisit this policy as Panorama becomes more popular.

The relational feature will be available with Panorama X 10.2, which will be released to the public in mid to late spring. We will also be making this available in pre-release starting in January, but you must sign up for an online course to be eligible for the pre-release. This was announced on this forum a couple of weeks ago, here’s a link to the FAQ for the new release.

The PanoramaX Help, both the offline version supplied with each version’s app and the online up to the latest version are themselves generated from PanX databases. At the end of each Help page is a History section displaying the relevant Version, Status and Notes, as stored in one field on Help’s datasheet. There it would have said those features were new to 10.2. And the top two entries under the PanoramaX menu would have shown you had version 10.1.2 and it was the newest version available. So its ‘not yet buyable’ status was at least implied.

One unavoidable side effect of PanoramaX’s versatility is that people will investigate it in a very individual and non-linear manner. It cannot ensure any of its thousands of pages of documentation are read first. I, for one, consider the “coming attractions” character of the online Help a feature rather than a bug. If Jim thinks any change is indicated I’d suggest tweaking the code for generation of that “History” section to replace a “New” status with “Pre-release” when appropriate.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable that Benjamin missed this implication. The version information is buried at the bottom of the page, easy to miss if you are not specifically looking for it. And I think quite a few people have confused 10.1.2 with 10.2.

That would add an extra degree of difficulty in that this would have to be re-rendered for every page when the new version is released. Not impossible, of course.

From what I have learned today, I will wait with patient excitement for 10.2 to be actually available before I migrate my data. I do like the features described about the new release, and I don’t feel that there was any active deception. I also don’t think desktop database software is in danger of becoming the next hot trend, so I doubt Provue has to worry about hoards of users stumbling on teased, unavailable features.

However, I do think the homepage reference to “improved” relational features was in part cause of my thought that I could build relational database models in the current version. It’s clear when you click to download, that you are downloading 10.1.2, but it is not clear in the rest of the page that the relational models and keys referenced on that page will only be available in future upgrades or whether “relationship models” means “lookup(” macros. Again, it isn’t a big deal, but I’m definitely not intending to burn credits building anything in this version when I can just set it up a few months later using all the appealing features I read about. Since I haven’t used panorama since the 90s, and I don’t have access to 10.2, I have a hard time guessing how many features are not available now. If it’s just a few, then it’s probably not worth worrying about. How many people are actually likely to do what I did? My guess is not so many. Clearly I dug too deep on the internet/website in the wrong places and got exactly the wrong combination of pre-release information, and lack of awareness that it was pre-release. I’m an amateur, a visual artist who uses computers for a certain amount of data and sales tracking. I have run my business writing scripts to make google sheets act like a database, but most artists I know can’t figure out how to link to data in a second sheet, or even how to add two cells, whereas most programmers and data managers probably have a long view on software, enough not to make impulse database purchases after dinner like me.
In any event, I look forward to using Panorama when the new version is public. I’ll use my credits then.

Where the current home page mentions relational features, it is referring to lookups(. With one exception, the lookup( feature can do everything that the new relational model does. However, the new relational model makes this significantly easier to set up and maintain. Also when doing full database joins, the new relational model is also a lot faster, even multiple orders of magnitude faster. (The one exception is the new ability to do “outer joins”, this would have been very difficult to do in previous versions.)

We’ve actually published a page detailing what will be in 10.2, you can read it here:

If something is on this list, it is NOT in Panorama X 10.1.

Thanks for the additional info!

benjamin, it sounds like you already have your indexes figure out. If so, you can use the features PanX already have. 'twere it me, I’d probably do that anyway, even with the pending 10.2. Why is that? First, there’s a lot of history/support for the “older” way of doing things. Second, even when 10.2 becomes available, there won’t be a lot of “expertise” out in the field. Third, it’s a NEW feature. I’m sure it has been tested to be 100% bullet proof. But it is a NEW feature.

From my point of view - curmudgeon in training - I like the control. Commands that are designed to simplify can sometimes make things more complicated to me because the stuff I want to see - especially during development - is hidden behind the simplification.

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: BIG NEWS – Panorama X 10.2 Classes & Preview starts in January!

@designer, that’s good advice, and maybe I should just build it all in 10.1 and adopt the new system when it comes out, but since I haven’t used any Panorama software in two decades, even 10.1 will have a learning curve, so my instinct is just to spend the time learning the new features along with the past 20 years of changes when 10.2 is available. Especially since I’m specifically interested in importing and building relationships for data that is already indexed in different tables in my current system, and since Jim has indicated that the new relationship tools streamline the process of linking the data somewhat. Also, I’m a solo operation and the amount of data I need to add to my system in the next few months will be negligible. I’m looking at adopting panorama for the long haul, so a few months wait to make the transition doesn’t matter much in my business. Plus a few months more of planning and design, along with reading panorama documentation may help me to put it all together more successfully when I sit down to actually build it